I think humor is one of the best tools to get around mental barriers sometimes. And it can be really good at making people self aware of thier own cognitive dissonance. I really enjoyed this video when I was a believer as its pretty funny but makes some knock down points.
Coded Logic
JoinedPosts by Coded Logic
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Bible Quiz
by Coded Logic ini think humor is one of the best tools to get around mental barriers sometimes.
and it can be really good at making people self aware of thier own cognitive dissonance.
i really enjoyed this video when i was a believer as its pretty funny but makes some knock down points.
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My JW mom is now willing to "listen" to our side...Need advice pls
by 2pink inmy husband and i (both born in jws with extended family all "in" except for one of my sisters who left when we did) left the church 5 years ago.
we did not fade, we just didn't believe it anymore, told our families so and left.
obviously, big drama in our family after this, messy feelings, etc.
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Coded Logic
Just lifted this from CRAM, on rare occasion they do make some good points:
The 144,000 are mentioned in two chapters in the Bible: Revelation 7 & 14. By looking at the verses it is obvious that the 144,000 are literal Jews of the ancient tribes with no Gentiles among them (7:4-8). They are all males (14:4) and virgins (14:4). If the JW states that the usage of Jewish male virgins is figurative, what gives them the right to state that number of 144,000 is literal?
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“Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?” ( Matthew 24:45 )
The Watchtower’s interpretation of Matthew 24:45 is extremely problematic. By putting together an array of highly speculative and complex chronological threads, they come to the conclusion that 1914 is the day in which Christ began his rule at the “conclusion of this system of things.” This is contrary to the biblical view that Christ began His rule at His ascension ( Eph. 1:20-22 ). It's also contrary to the fact that the slave class started with Peter when Jesus charged him with feeding his sheep (John 21:15-17).
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"Who are we to question /god/?"
by LovelyEunie inhas anyone had this line said to them when there was questioning involved?
did it irritate you because when questioning did happen that line was almost always used as a shut down to keep you from going any further and to make you feel guilty in the process?
because we're just idiotic and feeble minded human beings, so surely we can't possibly begin to question the likes of god.
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Coded Logic
"I'm not questioning god, I'm questioning YOU. You're saying that this is true, YOU prove it."
-Ongager
Spot on! I've had to use almost those exact words a couple of times.
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The New World Translation
by Coded Logic inone of the jws foundational doctrines is their belief in the inerrancy of the bible.
there are several methods they use to try and support this position including their claim that the bible, as it exists today, is the exact same bible that has been around for thousands of years.
they teach that gods word has been perfectly preserved.
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Coded Logic
(The Book of Enoch) was not "removed" from anything. Christians don't make commentaries part of their canons either.
- Josh J
Can you please clarify what you mean by "commentaries." The book of Enoch contains the story of the Watchers (Angles that came to earth and had intercourse with women to make the Nephlim), Enoch's journey to the end of the world, and his travel to the heavens. There is also quite a bit of prophecy. I'm not sure why you're calling it a "commentary". I can't find this term attached to the Book of Enoch by any academic source (or anywhere else that matter).
Also, you say it wasn't "removed" from anything. This statement really clouds the issue as there was no official canon it could be removed from. It would be equivalent to a JW saying the book of Enoch was never removed from the NWT. True, it was never in the NWT, but the NWT is not canon. I agree that the Book of Enoch wasn't part of the main stream Jews (the Pharisees and the Sadducees) teachings at the time as it wasn't translated from Hebrew into Greek later on (the Septuagint). However, clearly James, as well as the earlier Essenes (Jewish sect), thought it was part of Biblical cannon. And, if you're a JW, shouldn't James be a more reliable source then the Pharisees and the Sadducees?
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The New World Translation
by Coded Logic inone of the jws foundational doctrines is their belief in the inerrancy of the bible.
there are several methods they use to try and support this position including their claim that the bible, as it exists today, is the exact same bible that has been around for thousands of years.
they teach that gods word has been perfectly preserved.
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Coded Logic
One of the JWs foundational doctrines is their belief in the inerrancy of the Bible. There are several methods they use to try and support this position including their claim that the Bible, as it exists today, is the exact same Bible that has been around for thousands of years. They teach that “God’s Word” has been perfectly preserved. But is this claim true?
Well, let’s start with the basics. The New World Translation is what's known as a Protestant Bible (having 66 books). This type of Bible was first put together in 1825 by the British and Foreign Bible Society. Prior to that, the Bible had an alternate number of books depending upon which version you read.
For example, the oldest manuscripts we have of the Old Testament come from the Dead Sea Scrolls (dated between 50 and 200 BC). It includes Bible Books that are not found in the NWT such as Sirach, Tobit, and the Book of Enoch. And the Dead Sea Scrolls also include extensions to Esther and Daniel that are no longer present today (including the account of Bell and the Dragon.)
If these books and extensions aren’t part of God’s word, why were they included as part of the Bible earlier? And why did it take until 1825 for them to be taken out by the British and Foreign Bible Society? More importantly, why were Enoch’s prophecies removed from the Bible when Jude clearly thought they were part of Biblical canon?
Yes, the seventh one in line from Adam, Enoch, prophesied also regarding them, when he said: “Look! Jehovah came with his holy myriads to execute judgment against all.”
- Jude 1:14 (quoting the prophecy in Enoch 1:9)
So who is wrong? The NWT? Or Jude?
But it’s not just the Old Testament that has canon related issues. For example, the Bible books Hebrews, James, 1 & 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John, Jude, and Revelation were not added to the Bible until AFTER 419 AD. Conversely, books that used to be part of the New Testament but were later removed include Shepherd of Hermes, Epistle of Barnabas, 1 & 2 Clement, Epistle to the Laodiceans, and the Apocalypse of Peter.
All of this begs the question: If the Bible wasn’t accurate back then - why would anyone assume it’s accurate now?
There are also other problems. Like entire books that were referenced have gone missing - like the Book of Jasher (see Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18). There are also supposed prophecies that are “fulfilled” but for which there exists no original prophecy (Matthew 2:23, 27:9, no where in the Bible does it say Jesus would be called a Nazarene).
So the next time someone tells you the Bible is “God’s Word” ask them, which Bible? Which books? And how do THEY know?
If God inspired the Bible as his inerrant word, why did he not keep it as his inerrant word?
-Bart Ehrman
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New "The List" of... Times when JW's thought it was the end and it wasn't...
by ILoveTTATT ini think that there should be a list of the times when a certain world event got jw's thinking "this has got to be it!
the start of armageddon!".
it would be nice to have screenshots of twitter/facebook comments from actual jw's.... then come back to it 5, 10, 15 years from now and just say... nope... just another crisis in the world.... just this year there have been two:.
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Coded Logic
Dear Brothers and lower class citizens (aka "Sisters"),
We are living in the last days . . . no really, we're for sure this time.
We know that two years ago we said the end would most likely have come by now but this time we're really sure. It's not like four years ago when we said this is really, really, the end. And it's definitely not like ten years ago when we said we are almost absolutley certain the end will come in the next year or two. This time, we are really, really, really, sure! We know that fifteen years ago we said it would be "any day now" but that doesn't count. And please completely disregard what we said twenty years ago about the generation born in 1914 having almost completely died off (God has illuminated in hind sight that wasn't meant to be taken litteraly - as many brothers and lower class citizens did when they read what we were obviously saying but we now didn't actually mean).
We have "new light." We wont tell you where this new light comes from or how it came into our possesion, but please rest assured that we have it this time . . . no really, we do. It's not like the "new light" from forty years ago when we told you to sell your homes. That was different "new light." This new "new light" is much better. It comes from God himself - not that it didn't come from God last time but this time it's different - really. Just trust us okay? We are inspired by God which is why our track record of exactly ZERO fulfilled predictions and dozens of failed prophecies is an indicator of our devine inspiration.
The most humble people on all the planet (who know they are much better than you),
The GB
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Well, IT HAS BEGUN. See the future of the WTBTS in print.
by DATA-DOG ini hate to read the wt, but i skimmed the july 15 study edition.
i found many examples of propaganda, of course, but a couple things really stood out.
1) the future of the preaching work.
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Coded Logic
Do they not know that you need wi-fi to get to their precious little jw.org website?
Umm, I thought they could just download it and store it on their Jpads for service and meetings and stuff.
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Outrageous Comment
by Yondaime inwhat was the most outrageous comment you ever heard during a wt study?.
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please share your experiences..
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Coded Logic
Not exactly at the WT meeting, but a few years ago the elders had a meeting in the back after the watchtower with all the guys who were in their twenty somethings to talk about "reaching out for privlidges." Off the cuff, the CO said it's okay to wear dress shirts that have short sleeves. But that if we were wearing long sleeved dress shirts it was "wordly" to roll them up. There was nearly an instant mutiny amongst all the elders in the room and they stepped out for a few minutes and when they came back the CO said it was okay to roll up our sleeves if we wanted to.
After the meeting was over, one of the kiss butt guys said, "You know, if an elder doesn't want us to roll up oursleeves we should just listen to him. They are appointed for our protection."
It's bizarre looking back, what a deluded self righteous little brat I used to be. How I possibly could have thought at the time that there was "sprirtual danger" in rolled up sleeves is completely beyond me. But the CO really did like me after that comment . . . until he cheated on his wife and ran off with another woman not six months later. Typical witness behavior, strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel.
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Roll Call
by Coded Logic inanyone from the northern california area?
i used to go to a hall up in redding.. currently in sacramento.
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Coded Logic
Mt. Shasta?
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Roll Call
by Coded Logic inanyone from the northern california area?
i used to go to a hall up in redding.. currently in sacramento.
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Coded Logic
Anyone from the Northern California area? I used to go to a hall up in Redding.
Currently in Sacramento